The first public draft of the excavators is on http://pt.lacunaexpanse.com

Summary:

• Excavators are now treated similar to mining platforms in that they deploy at their target.
• They do not need cargo ships to send back finds since they carry a mini-sst.
• They can only be sent to uninhabited habitable planets and asteroids.
• Distance does not matter anymore.
• They can find Plans, Glyphs, Resources, Artifacts, and things better not disturbed.
• If finding an item better not disturbed, the excavator is destroyed.
• Excavators can be shot down.
• Chances of finds are based on level of controlling Archaelogy Ministry.
• Results are returned every hour, a summary per archaelogy is given.
• Profile settings will shorten the summary for the skip options.
• Artifact & Destroy can't be turned off yet via the UI.
• UI needs to be updated for viewing and abandoning excavator sites.
• Excavators cost more to produce and are slower.
• Archaelogies work as an excavator with better chance of finding glyphs, but no chance of artifacts or destroy events.
• Glyphs returned are based on the ore ratio of the body being excavated.
• An asteroid with a total of 6,000 ore has a 60% chance of returning a glyph than an asteroid that has a total of 10,000 ore
• No N19 messages at this time, but this will change.  (Not in quantities we see now though)

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Forgot to mention:

1 Excavator each level can be deployed starting at level 15 level 11 of your Arch Ministry.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

"1 Excavator each level can be deployed starting at level 15 of your Arch Ministry."

This bit is confusing me - does this mean that a level 16 Arch Min should be able to send out a total of 2 excavators (1 per level starting at level 15)?  Or does it mean that the level 16 Arch Min should be able to send out a total of 16 excavs, but it doesn't gain the ability to send any at all till level 15?

I'd understood it to be the first, as I've seen mentions of a total max of 16 excavs per planet, provided a level 30 Arch Min.  That doesn't appear to be how it's working though; I've got 7 working excavs out on a level 18 Arch Min on pt right now; I'm not sure if this is a bug or a misunderstanding on my part.

Also, there's a post below talking about level 11 being the starting level for sending excavs?  How's that factor in?  Is 11 just the new 15?  What's that mean for re: max number of excavs per Arch Min?

The server was updated so that excavators can be built and sent starting at lvl 11.

So your lvl 18 Arch min having 7 working is correct.

So at lvl 30 you can have a total of 19 on that planet.

So now my question?  How is everything testing out.  So far I have to say I'm pretty suprised at the number of glyphs my planets are creating on PT.  So far I only have lvl 10's and below but one of my colonies has already made 36 chromite glyphs.

How are the lvl 30 planets compairing to glyphs produce to a lvl 30 planet on us1 currently.

I have to say right now it is looking very good for newer players.

One more question and also I think my math above is off by one.  Ie lvl 30 will be able to control 20 excavators?  Lvl 18 you should be able to control 8?

Now for my question.  Something just came to my attetion.  Ark ministries work like an excavators but excavators can not be sent to Gas Giants.  So can you build Ark mins on Gas Giants?

I do not have GG on PT yet but I'm wondering how the ore distribution effects the auto searches of the ark mins on GG's  I'm guessing they would have a very high chance of finding a glyph, and might this cause a over flow of Rutile, Galena, Halite and Goethite glyphs, and not by a little bit?

Thanks.

Reavers.

On a Gas Giant, you won't have an increased chance of glyph discovery (It's capped at 60% currently, same as habitable), but since GGs tend to only have 3 mineral choices at over 1, you'll tend to get one of those.  (And most likely the one at 14k)

And yes, we do expect some glyph imbalance in the market after this releases.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Hi, Can you clarify some points?

• The Archaeology API docs for abandon_excavator() mention a site_id - is this the same as the remote body_id, or is it a totally new ID?
• Does distance still affect chance of success?
• Is there any limit to the number of excavators that can be working simultaneously at a single planet, from either multiple empires or a single empire?
• What happens to excavators at a body that gets colonized?

• Site ID is the excavator ID which is returned by view_excavator.
• Distance has no bearing on success.
• Every empire in the expanse could be excavating on the same planet, but each empire would be limited to one excavator there.
• If a colony is founded on a planet with the excavator, at next excavation time, the excavator is destroyed and is noted in the summary.  "Dig wiped out by new Colony from EmpireName."
• A summary each hour is per Archeaology.  (I would of liked to have summarized by empire, but the code would get more complicated at that point.  I think there would be a way of doing this in the future.)

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

If a detonator is sent to an Asteroid with excavators, will it clear off the excavators when it clears off any mining platforms?

At the moment, no.  Haven't decided on that yet.  Unlike mining platforms, there isn't a limit on how many seperate empires can have an excavator on a body.  There are reasons other empires might not want someone digging on a particular body though.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Ha! Saw you commented and I guessed which way your vote would be.

Looking at the code, it doesn't look very difficult to implement.  Just have to allow detonators to be aimed at uninhabited habitables.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

So far the new changes to excavators have been great on the PT server.

A couple of things I've noticed that aren't mentioned here.

1, The rate at which excavators are dying is likely to be reduced.

2, The 30 day rule no longer applies to excavators

3, Artifact planets are out there but exactly which ones those are is up to us to figure out.

4, Excavators can find Great Race Ruins again. 

5, Excavators are allowed at 1 per level starting at level 15 allowing a maximum of 16 excavators per planet.  This particular point has me a little concerned as a level 15 Archmin is already fairly difficult to support let alone build if you don't have glyph buildings already.  This could create a relatively difficult entry for newer empires trying to get into mass glyph production.  This could be further compounded by the fact that lower level archmins have a lower chance of getting a return.

6, Excavator returns are now grouped all into a single message, with each excavator site having a seperate line about what happened.  Disabling certain notices will turn off those bits of info in the return messages.  Planets with an archmin lower than level 15 will also give notices regarding excavators but they will say nothing was found.

For those interested in my tests using PT stats as they stand now with a level 30 archmin.  This is from 1 24 hour period.  I recieved 33 plans, about 130 glyphs, and lost 6 excavators.  The excavators were replaced mostly within a few hours of their destruction.  This means if you get a good spread of glyphs that a single planet could produce about 30 halls per day.

A couple more changes that could be introduced with this is Stations could have another option added to where they can block non-allied excavators in controlled systems.  This could be especially valuable if a controlled system has an artifact planet.

Missions could also receive an expansion that requires a ship to be sent to a certain asteroid.  If that ship happed to be a detonator it could cause a few misuderstandings.  Fighters, sweepers, and mining platform missions could also be interesting.

As a lower-level player, I'm starting to get very excited about the upcoming change. The purpose for my posting this note is to express my thoughts regarding Jazz's one concern, as stated:

5, Excavators are allowed at 1 per level starting at level 15 allowing a maximum of 16 excavators per planet.  This particular point has me a little concerned as a level 15 Archmin is already fairly difficult to support let alone build if you don't have glyph buildings already.  This could create a relatively difficult entry for newer empires trying to get into mass glyph production.  This could be further compounded by the fact that lower level archmins have a lower chance of getting a return.

Personally, I consider  this to be a feature, not a problem. Players like Jazz have spent a year or more getting to the level of being able to support level 30 ArchMins. This seems like a very well-considered, sophisticated, built-in way for high-level players to retain some of the advantage that they've spent so long building up. The "playing field" still seems like it will be much more even under this new system. IMHO, everyone has the chance to build up to that level, not just the scripters. 

-Dast.

What are artifacts?

I don't think I've ever gotten anything from excavators other than plans, glyphs and basic resources - sounds like you're talking about something else.

Artifacts are basically those glyph buildings left behind on planets.

Those include any of the glyph structures such as BHGs and Rocky Outcropping.  Naturally, there are a couple things that don't get dug that still might distract your archaeologists such as E-Veins and Dillon Forges.

You get plans back based on what is there and the level of your archaeology, but will probably remove the stucture from the planet.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

In one way i like this it will reduce the number of glyph builds out there left behind by inactives.

But I have one question does this mean we will not get a glyph plan if the buildings is not on the planet we are excavating at?

Or is there still a random chance we will get a 1+4 plan?

Also if there are high lvl plans on a planet we are eexcavating say a lvl 10 is there a chance we would get a 1+9?

Thanks

Getting artifacts (old glyph buildings) and getting plans are two seperate events.

And the level of artifact plan gotten is dependant on the level of archaeology ministry.  Those numbers I'll let people try to figure out though.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

One bug I've noticed on PT regarding this is a level 2 archmin is telling me:

• Unable to Downgrade:
• You must abandon one of your Excavator Sites before you can downgrade the Archaeology Ministry.

This shouldn't be happening since a level 2 archmin can't even have any Excavator Sites.

Yes, the downgrade bug has already been caught and fixed in the code. Just waiting for the next code push.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

A question about :

• Glyphs returned are based on the ore ratio of the body being excavated.
• An asteroid with a total of 6,000 ore has a 60% chance of returning a glyph than an asteroid that has a total of 10,000 ore

Is the type of a glyph based on the ore type of the asteroid or will it be random ?

Wendano

PS: sorry about my english

The glyph returned is based on the ore content of the asteroid.  For instance if you excavate a type 11 asteroid that has an magnetite ore number of 9980, you'll most likely get a magnetite with occasional other types.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

The API docs don't tallying up with responses from PT.

The docs say each item in the view_excavators->{excavators} array should have an "id" key.

I don't see that, but I do see an undocumented "id" key in the "excavator" hash in each of those array items.

e.g. view_excavators->{excavators}[0]{excavator}{id}

Hmm, so it is.  Let's make it look more like the mining platform response:

• {
•   "status" : { ... }.
•   "max_excavators" : 20,
•   "excavators" : [
•     {
•        "id : "id-goes-here",
•        "body" : { ... },
•        "artifact"  : 10,
•        "glyph"     : 31,
•        "plan"       :  7,
•        "resource" : 41
•     },
•    ...
•   ]
• }

Note chances are now displayed as a percent.  Decided chance in 1000, may confuse some.

Thank you.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

New changes are up on pt.

3.0839:

• Mod: Detonators now destroy excavators.
• Mod: N19 reports on excavators and detonators.
• Mod: Updated Archaeology.pod
• Mod: Adjusted percentages of results.

One change I didn't do, but will happen is that the archmin itself will pass back it's excavator numbers.  (Instead of the ID of the excav being passed back, it will be the building id)

Oh, and dchanges didn't list that excavs can now be built and deployed when you have an arch min of level 11.

And now I'm going to go crunch numbers.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Some additional notes on the changes.  With a level 30 archmin I've been pulling in decor plans as high as 1+7 those do come in very rarely though, maybe 1 per day.

Another note is that Great Race ruins can be found again.  I've yet to find one though greater than level 1. 

These excavators I think just keep getting better and better.

I would like to suggest another change to the archmin and it's 6 hour glyph dig.  I would suggest changing it to a 2 hour dig cycle and allow queuing of digs up to a max of 24 hours. 

Not sure this is just effect on being on PT but I recently(last couple of days) build the ark ministry.  Over the weekend I started receiveing messages I was finding glyphs even though I started no searches.  I recall I may have sent out excavators which I received for mission on missions prior to this update.  I'm guessing this why I'm getting them however through the ark min it says I can't send any(to low a lvl) and also I do not see any.  I figured it would be like the Mining min and show where the ships are.

Reavers.

Guess I have to explain what: "Archaelogies work as an excavator with better chance of finding glyphs, but no chance of artifacts or destroy events."

This happens even if the arch ministry is below level 11.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

So if you get a mission to send an excavator you can send it even if your ark min is not at the required lvl?

Also just want to be clear I have done "No" glyph searches with my Ark min.

I'm getting excavator results...

Archeologies will return a result as an excavator every hour with a better chance of getting a glyph.  This will start happening at level one for the arch min.  You will not be able to send an excavator until your archaeology ministry is at least level 11.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Just got a lvl 11 Arch ministry few minutes ago.

Can send excavator. 

Cleared catche and open closed browser again.

Fixed in code, not released yet though.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Couple of questions.

*UI needs to be updated for viewing and abandoning excavator sites.

an specifics on how this with be done?  Ie if you just click on the planet or astroid will it show if you have an orbiting excavator.

Or will it be pretty much exactly like the mining ministry.  Where their is a new tab excavations which will list all empire excavating the body.

Will there also be a tab added to the Arch ministry to show where all your excavators are and the ore types of those bodies?

And finally any eta on the next update :).

Things seem to be going pretty smothly.

Plan for UI:

On Starmap, current excavators by all empires can  be seen in a tab.

On Archeology Ministry, their will be a tab similar to view platforms as mining ministry.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

What I was refering to Norway is that the original 6 hour selectable search for a glyph is still work on the archmin.  I wasn't meaning to refer to the now automated search that the archmin does hourly.  I personally prefer the now automated search.  My comments were meant to be considered if the manual search option was going to be kept since it still currently works on PT.

Since this is the time to consider options, here's a thought:

I've only "experienced" the new system vicariously through Jazz's commentary, but one potential hole he pointed out is, gaps may arise in a player's glyph inventory because the system is now designed to only return glyphs from ores present on the bodies where they are excavating. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to allow one or both of the ArchMin searches (automated and/or manual) to search for other glyphs, even those NOT present on the planet where the ArchMin is located. Granted, this is not strictly in keeping with the "search" that researchers do at the ArchMin, searching through piles of ore samples to find the elusive glyphs. However, lower level players may find themselves with piles of similar glyphs and unable to assemble anything because they're missing one type.

I can understand if this is intended to increase the urge to buy and sell glyphs. If so, this may accomplish that goal. However, if the intent is to give lower level players the ability to gather glyphs and assemble them independently, then the "glyph gap" may need to be addressed.

Just my 2 cents.

-Dast.

Glyph searches can be done on the ore in storage.

The excavator searches and the auto arch min search are based on the ore content of the planet.

And yes, there might wind up being a glyph gap that people will have to trade around for. That's part of the design.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure that was the intent.

It all sounds great. This is gonna be fun :)

-Dast.

Do we have a rough ETA of the changes hitting the main server (and in particular the web browser interface)?

Just wondering

Not sure about Del status on PT, but as the Del remain in ISO for now on the live side, does this mean that sending excavators to a Del colony will (on the live side) be considered a hostle act, or will it have no consequences? 

Del aren't ISO on pt.

I'll have to check, but Trel might respond as well.

With the excavators being more target driven for results, people might want to be checking where they send their excavators anyway...

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

When will the new excavator system be intoduced?

I don't want to get stuck with 3000 or more excavators that has to be scuttled.

Will there be any warning beforehand?

I have the feeling that just one morning i will wake up and see an anouncement.......

I'd like to give a weeks notice, since I'd like to have people able to turn off their scripts when the change over happens.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

So when will the change happen, in 1week, 1month?

That's a commonly asked question right now and I think there'll be a general announcement so everyone knows.  Until that time I think the only player who knows is Norway.  Not even the other admins know.

Latest changes:

UI on PT is updated.

• Excavator Tab available via Arch Ministry.
• Excavator Tab on Starmap will tell you if a body has excavators on it and from who.
• Space Station Ownership of a system is now shown.

There are a few things that will have to wait until the server code is updated on PT.

• Tweaked return results a little downwards for glyphs.
• Turning off Artifact & Destroyed messages won't work until then.
• Abandon button will not be shown for ministry itself, just for excavators.
• Space Stations can now restrict excavation access once the Parliament reaches level 20.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!

Wiki updated: http://community.lacunaexpanse.com/wiki/excavator

Couple more tweaks going to pt soonish.  Just running some smoke tests first.

Lemmings in Spaaaacccce!